All posts tagged Mark Driscoll

Limited Atonement

by Hugh on December 18, 2007 in Faith with 3 Comments

It’s been a while, but time to resume the series of posts looking at TULIP, and we come to the issue of Atonement. There seems to be two ways to argue this, logically inferring from the Bible, and explicitly from the Bible text… (some links first)

Mark Driscoll – Unlimited Limited Atonement

John Piper – “For whom did Jesus taste death?” (Heb 2:9)

Carl Chambers – “Are there Few that be saved?”

Doug Wilson – “Definite Atonement”

Logic…

So… if Christ died for the sins of everyone (made atonement for those sins), then everyone will stand before God with a ‘not-guilty’ verdict – their sins have all been paid for, so they stand justified before God…

…which means everyone goes to heaven… you see there can’t be a hell, who would go there? Any concept of hell would then be completely unjust, God would punish all sin on the cross, and then punish some again in hell.

Now some would reject this anyway, even some might dare to call themselves evangelical and reject hell. The Bible, indeed Jesus speaks very clearly and plainly about the reality of hell, the present and future judgement of God.

Bible…

In the Driscoll sermon above he does this amusing performance of how all the Arminians take the verses that say “Christ died for… ALL, EVERYONE”, and how the Calvinists quote the verses that say “Christ died for… MANY, SOME”. It’s funny, but it’s true, we always take the verses that prove our point… rather we should take scripture as a whole all the verses in one big pile.

Driscoll argues that in some respects Christ died for all, because all experience a blessing from the atonement, what we might call God’s Common Grace to all… but, that in a saving way, in actually atoning for the sin of the individual, Christ died for some, for the elect. That’s how he reconciles, the ALL and the SOME. I don’t know, but it’s the best answer I’ve heard for truly reconciling these two ideas of ‘who’ Jesus died for.

Why I don’t like Limited Atonement……because it makes the cross sound weak, as though the sacrifice of Christ wasn’t quite enough to do the job… the synonym ‘Particular Redemption’ is perhaps better?

Why it doesn’t actually matter…

I would say, there is a ‘Universal Call’ on all people to come to the Cross of Christ for redemption, and the Bible is clear that anyone who comes to Jesus for forgiveness will be saved, their sin has been atoned for. But, the atonement of sins is still limited to those who confess Christ (see logic), this is still true regardless of whether we accept the second point of the TULIP, that human beings are Unconditionally Elected to receive that atonement for their sins. Whether it’s Election or God’s foreknowledge of our choices, or even a blatant heresy of God not knowing the future – the atonement of sins is only effective for those who trust in Jesus.

So What?

Judgement is real, the wages of sin is death, but for those who trust Jesus, He became their sin so that they could become the righteousness of God. But it’s easy to get bogged down in the arguments of who did Jesus die for, who are the elect, who will be saved? Perhaps these quotes are helpful…

Charles Spurgeon says “Lord call out your elect. Then elect some more”

Stephen Nowak says “I can’t lift up people’s shirts to see if they have ‘elect’ written on them! I’m just called to preach the gospel”

The bottom line is God is in control of the whole history of salvation, he knows the end right from the beginning, and he’s called Christians to be his ambassadors, his messengers to bring the gospel, the news of Christ’s atoning sacrifice on the cross to all people, everywhere.

5 Things that make me Cry

by Hugh on November 1, 2007 in Film & TV with No comments

I cried today (not ashamed to admit that). I was listening to Mark Driscoll speak from Philippians 1:19-30, ‘A Rebel’s Guide to Joy in Death‘ it was moving enough listening to him talk, then he played an interview with a member of his church in hospital with maybe weeks/months to live having battled cancer for 7 years, then heard the story of Horatio Spafford and they played his hymn, ‘It is well with my soul’ (see below), I challenge you to listen to this and not be moved…

1. See above

2. Seeing someone I love die for the first time, my grandpa

3. Realising that God’s in control, and I’m helpless without Him

4. Films: To End All Wars, Crash, the end of Gladiator, Lion King, and some others

5. Hearing about people giving up everything to serve Jesus around the world

When peace like a river, attendeth my way, when sorrows like sea billows roll;
Whatever my lot, Thou hast taught me to say, it is well, it is well, with my soul.

It is well, with my soul, it is well, with my soul, It is well, it is well, with my soul.

Though Satan should buffet, though trials should come, let this blest assurance control,
That Christ has regarded my helpless estate, and hath shed His own blood for my soul.

My sin, oh, the bliss of this glorious thought! My sin, not in part but the whole,
Is nailed to the cross, and I bear it no more, praise the Lord, praise the Lord, O my soul!

And Lord, haste the day when my faith shall be sight, the clouds be rolled back as a scroll;
The trump shall resound, and the Lord shall descend, even so, it is well with my soul.

Health Prosperity: By his stripes we are healed?

by Hugh on October 24, 2007 in Faith with No comments

Here’s a heresy I was hearing a few weeks ago, it sounds something like… ‘sickness is not God’s will for you’, ‘God promises good health here and now’, ‘if you don’t get healed it’s because you lack faith’, ‘if I pray for you then God will heal you’…

The question is asked, “Does God Heal?”… How do we answer that? Yes, He can. Yes, He does, sometimes. Will God heal, in heaven yes, on earth, well that’s up to Him.
There seems to be an addition to the gospel, coming from Isaiah 53:5 – Jesus died for our sins on the cross, and he suffered for our healing (hear and now) – “By his stripes we are healed”

I can’t see any reason to then say, because Jesus suffered in this way that he paid for our healing here and now… the “healed” is in the context (verse 5) of our sin being dealt with and of a relationship with God being healed (peace).

This is one of three legs of the prosperity gospel (health, wealth and prosperity), it’s a little more subtle than your average ‘Christian’ TV preacher who wants your money… cause Jesus will give you loads back! And it sounds reasonable… God can heal, Christians are his children, why would he not heal??

What does the Bible say on the matter…?

2 Cor 12:7-10

“…there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”

We don’t know what exactly Paul’s thorn in the flesh was… but we do know the Paul asked God three times to take it away… God displays his power in our weakness

1 Tim 5:23

“Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.”

So Timothy had dodgy bowels and was frequently ill.

Gal 4:12-16

“…it was because of an illness that I first preached the gospel to you. Even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself.”

God used Paul’s illness for good

John Piper had cancer last year and wrote an article called “Don’t Waste Your Cancer“, I can’t write everything he said but his main points are:

illness is designed for you by God
illness is a gift, not a curse
God brings comfort
Death is a reality for us all
illness is a time to seek God and treasure Him

If God is sovereign… sorry, God is sovereign (by definition) which means illness is given by Him, of course sometimes he may use illness to show his power through miraculous healing, often he won’t!

There are two dangers I feel… first we claim our promises too early, one day we will be whole, healed, perfect, but that is not until heaven… Revelation 21 says of the new earth that “There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain”, one assumes therefore there will be until then, we can’t claim the promises of God before he brings them to completion in his time. Second, we miss the point of illness… ultimately it’s appointed by God, we can use a time of illness/suffering to give glory to God, to seek him, to pray to him… or we can ignore him.

Providentially, Driscoll just started talking about this in his latest sermon (35 mins in)

Hear what JP thinks about the Prosperity gospel…

Marriage and Singleness

by Hugh on October 23, 2007 in Faith, Life with 3 Comments

Wow. I didn’t think it was going to happen this soon, but suspected it would eventually… this summer is going to be a Wedding summer of weddings! There’s 4 weddings of good mates this summer, I think I’ll get to 3 of them, at one I get to be an usher, another best man, and I’m negotiating to be a page boy at the third (I never got to be a page boy).

Part of me likes being single… I have time, money, I can choose what I wear, and don’t have to make an effort for anyone. At the same time this verse is so true…

Genesis 2:18 – “The LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”

It’s true, I need a helper. I have the Spirit, who is a helper, He’s great, but… he doesn’t make sure I wear (clean) clothes which go together, he doesn’t make sure I wash, he doesn’t stop me from living in the squalor that is my bedroom… I’m not too proud to say I need help!

Driscoll – “It is not good for a man to be alone – Why? Because men are weird…”

There’s going to be a few MD quotes cause I was listening to his sermon from 1 Cor 7 on Singleness…

Reasons not to get married:

you’re a eunuch – Matt 19:12
if it’s a really bad time – 1 Cor 7:25-28
to serve the Kingdom

Just checked, I’m not a eunuch. I guess being in full time study probably means it’s a bad time… hoorah I only 9 months left! I don’t think I’m called to a service which would require me to be single…

Reasons to get married:

not good for a man to be alone – Gen 2:18
better than burning with passion – 1 Cor 7:9

“…if you cannot remain sexually pure you need to hustle up, grow up, get a job, get married, quick, today!”

“She’s hot… yes and if you touch her you will burn in hell, and hell is hotter than she is!”

I’m fairly convinced I don’t have what they call the ‘gift of singleness’…

“Do you have the gift of chastity? Chastity, who’s she?” Chastity is when you don’t need to be with a women… what that’s a gift?”

Final quote… a call to grow up

“marriage is for men not boys, women not girls”

Marriage, relationship, it feels like one of those things that I’m built for, which is of course what Genesis says… while I’d love to get married, and don’t want to be single forever, there’s always a danger that we can turn good gifts of God into idols. I think it’s right to pursue marriage, but at the same time we should never forget the words of Jesus in Matt 22 – “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage”. Ultimately, Christ is the Bridegroom and the church is the Bride, if there’s one wedding I want to be at it has got to be that one!

There is one small detail I’ve forgotten… I need to find someone who wants to marry me!!

Some things

by Hugh on October 22, 2007 in Faith, Life with No comments

I have loads of posts brewing, half-finished, but alas this blog seems abit neglected of late…

The last couple of weeks seem to have gone by uneventfully, feels like it just passed me by, but some things must have happened…

Bit of a new look for bhmc.org.uk, also the sermons are now being updated more regularly, here’s a beauty – Phil Moon speaking on the Holy Spirit, very clear and simple, and bashing a few heresies.

I chose my project for my course last week, a website system for storing church sermons… could come in handy methinks…

At Mars Hill Church, Driscoll is into the third week of a new series on Philippians, so far at the end of each sermon they finish looking at the conversion of a hymn writer and how one of their hymns relates to the theme… then the band make it a tad more contemporary… Robert Robinson – Come Thou Fount… also for January there is ‘Ask Anything‘… Driscoll is inviting the “critics, bloggers, weirdos, nutjobs” to ask questions, people vote for the ones they want answered, then he’ll preach on them… no.1 at the moment is about the “Regulative Principle”… could be interesting…

Led CU Bible study on how the cross reveals God’s character, there were 3 of us, and I wasn’t expecting to lead, so preparing was a last minute job, but I learned loads… we are “justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus” – wow!

Talked at Global Cafe on why there’s suffering in the world… I think I avoided the hard parts of the question really, but simply: God made everything perfect, suffering was a direct consequence of the Fall (Sin), God can identify with our sufferings in Jesus, God dealt with the consequences of Sin at the cross, for the Christian there is hope of a perfect world.

Listening to Michael Ots from Lansdowne Baptist was helpful in preparing – ‘What kind of God doesn’t stop suffering?‘

Have been sad recently… looks like we’re out of the European Championships, lost the rugby world cup final (although the pub round the corner now has Staropramen on tap, which made it more bearable!), and Lewis Hamilton had a mare.

On a more happier note; great to see and meet lots of new people at church and CU, great to see God at work, building his church, although you do wonder why he chooses all the weirdos (like me)…

Man (I’ve started saying that a lot… too much Driscoll podcasting methinks) I’m tired. I need to sleep, get up early and do some work…

Vintage Jesus

by Hugh on September 28, 2007 in Books, Faith with No comments

Recently I’ve been listening to ‘Vintage Jesus’, a series of 12 sermons preached by Mark Driscoll at Mars Hill. It’s answers to 12 questions about Jesus, like; why did Jesus come? why did his mum need to be a virgin? why worship him? what will Jesus do when he returns?

There are two extras which I also like, each sermon starts with an interview with someone talking about Jesus, usually a crazy guy who smoked too much weed, ranting about something… also each week Pastor Mark wears a t-shirt about Jesus, usually it’s kindof irreverent, but shows how Jesus is very much part of pop culture.

Anyway.. it’s going to be coming out as a book (click pic for website) written with another guy called Gerry Breshears, it’s published on the 11th Feb 2008. Look out, there should be a few Driscoll books coming out next year.

Confessions of a Reformission Rev.

by Hugh on September 25, 2007 in Books, Faith with No comments

Read this book while on the train to Budapest… this book is the story of Mars Hill church in Seattle, along with some insights into various aspects of missiology and ecclesiology from Driscoll along the way.

The Criticisms

The two main criticisms I’ve heard about this book, and Driscoll’s ministry are; 1) the chapters are all based around the size of the church, 2) there’s lots of inappropriate things that Driscoll has done that he refers to.

Having read the book I think these are flawed criticisms – first, the book is about the growth of the church, and a vision for more growth, having targets is healthy for mission and focus, in one of his sermons Driscoll says about his church “Is it all about numbers? Well yeh it is because numbers are people and we want to serve as many people as God gives us.” Second, the book is called Confessions not everything here is presented as the right way to do things and Driscoll often talks about the times he has come to repent of his mistakes in ministry.

Key Points

Mission – Driscoll starts off with some of the themes of ‘Radical Reformission’, in all of the decisions he takes in Mars Hill he always makes sure that the focus is kept on the church mission – to reach Seattle with the gospel. Sometimes he has to “put dogs down” when there are people getting in the way of this mission.

Change – when a church grows from 50-4000 in less than 10 years there’s inevitably going to be some radical changes taking place. It’s interesting to hear about Driscoll’s personal change, distancing himself from the liberal Emergent movement and embracing Reformed theology, and how through preaching through Romans the church established this position. Driscoll makes some controversial, sometimes unpopular decisions, but is always looking to keep the church vision focused and ready to grow.

Management – a lot of what Driscoll does seems very experimental, but is always done under the authority of Scripture and the council of other pastors. Firstly, I like the basis of leadership, where rather than recruiting external leaders, that new leaders are raised up and trained within the church, and the idea of hiring staff slowly and firing quickly. And there’s lots of good thoughts about being a pastor, leading a church, leading an eldership team and managing staff, members, change and growth.

Questions – it’s not really a study guide, but at the end of each chapter Driscoll asks the readers some questions about their churches and their attitudes. Driscoll is on a mission and is constantly questioning why we do things, Driscoll brings us back to the Bible for the answers…

Overall…

You have to remember that this book is the story of a specific church in a specific place. And also that it’s a book of confessions… not everything is said and done is ‘good’. But, Driscoll’s passion for evangelism, for leading and building a church is worth the read alone, his thoughts on how to lead/pastor the church may seem a bit strange sometimes, but I love them, because he always goes back to the gospel mission and what the Bible says as his lead and guide.

As I understand the book is now out of date, the church has grown even more and has started multi-site services, with preaching streamed by satellite. Driscoll ends the book with a vision and strategy to see a church of 20,000, I suspect an updated edition will not be too far away!

As ever, it’s an easy read, full of humour and sarcasm, couldn’t put it down. Other reviews of the book can be found at… Reformissionary, Tim Challies, thebluefish

Gonna read about the ‘Cambridge Seven’ now…

Unconditional Election

by Hugh on September 1, 2007 in Faith with No comments

Yet again we come to one of those posts which has been sitting unfinished for some time – remember the thought of blogging through TULIP, well I made it to T! But I thought it was important to keep going, to ponder my understanding of these points. Anyway… I was thinking that Unconditional Election isn’t really much different to Total Depravity, it’s just the next step…

Why Election?

Universalism isn’t Christian, it’s a heresy – Driscoll mocks it referring to it as “Justification by death”, you get your ticket to heaven when you die. Jesus says there’s a heaven and a hell, and everyone is going to spend eternity in one of these places. Since God is sovereign, then at the very least he has foreknowledge of ‘who goes where’. But Election is more than this, God as sovereign wills and purposes all things to his glory, including salvation. God chooses (elects) those who will come to faith, and by the same logic, the same truth, God also chooses people who will not be saved.

What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory… Romans 9: 22-23 ESV

We see two groups here in Romans 9, “vessels of wrath” and “vessels of mercy”. Both groups have been chosen, elected – to say “prepared beforehand” is to choose in advance, to… predestine?? Both groups have been dealt with by God, one with “wrath”, and one with “mercy” to show his power and glory. Wrath is God’s righteous anger and judgement upon sin that all of mankind deserve. Mercy is not for everyone, it’s not universal, although the fact that God has “endured with much patience” is a sign of common grace, of some mercy shown to all. Mercy is undeserved, it’s unconditional because it’s a free gift from God.

That’s my reasoning of Romans 9 – if we don’t accept that then we have to seriously consider what election is? who are the elect? what does it mean to be predestined? The Bible tells us that God elects and predestines, that seems to be what Romans 9 tries to explain…

Why Unconditional?

The mercy shown in Romans 9 is unconditional. Ephesians 2 showed that we’re dead and unable to get to God. So if this is true then our ‘eternal destiny’ cannot be in our hands, we’re dead! We can’t do anything. Romans 8 makes it clear that it’s all God – he forknew, he predestined, he called, he justified, he glorified – we didn’t contribute or by our actions cause any of these things, they were all the free gift of God. It was by grace we were saved, not works.

As I understand, an Arminian position would say that, God in his foreknowledge chooses to save (elects) people based on their response to the gospel – conditional election. Other less acceptable positions might say that God doesn’t have foreknowledge and salvation is unknown until the Day, realistically this is probably going to lead to universalism – everyone is elected, or at least saved in the end.

Conditional election may at first glance be easier to swallow, but it has two major flaws: first the focus is taken away from God and shifted to us, but this is not right, Ephesians 2:8 says that even our faith is a gift of God’s grace. Secondly there is the problem of children who die young, tribes who never hear the gospel, the mentally incapable (is that PC? anyway you know what I mean). If election is conditional on the choice of the individual, then that automatically condemns the above who for one reason or another are unable to hear/understand/respond to the gospel. So in fact, believing in a God who chooses unconditionally, in my mind is much easier to accept!

The Next Step…

At the start I said I thought this was simply the next logical step, following on from Total Depravity. TD says that we are corrupted in every area and incapable of approaching and responding to God. Unconditional Election affirms our state of total helplessness – there is nothing we can do to merit salvation, nothing that might persuade God that we’re not that bad – it’s the story of the God who in his mercy saves people like you and me, who without him are lost, hopeless and helpless.

He drew me up from the pit of destruction, out of the miry bog, and set my feet upon a rock, making my steps secure – Psalm 40: 2

Redeeming Ruth

by Hugh on August 31, 2007 in Faith, Talks with No comments

Ruth Recently I’ve very much enjoyed Driscoll’s series on Ruth at Mars Hill. Some things I particularly liked was the use of video to produce a interactive bible reading, Dricoll’s own special way of bringing the story to life and helping us to understand 3000 year old events in today’s culture, and his emphasis on God’s redeeming grace in the life of Ruth, Naomi and Boaz. Also they made a nice desktop background to accompany the series. You can see all the series here…

Don’t Contextualize

by Hugh on August 28, 2007 in Faith with No comments

On the Desiring God blog there’s a link to an excerpt from a John Piper sermon that says “we don’t need to contextualize the gospel”. My first thoughts, initially are to say rubbish… look at Paul in Acts 17, read Driscoll’s ‘Radical Reformission’. But Piper has a universal gospel presentation from Romans 5… the context is that we’re human beings, made by God, descendants of Adam. Have a look, I thought it was interesting…