The debate was between James White (see his review) of Alpha & Omega Ministries and Abdullah al Andalusi.

I’ve spent much time recently thinking about debates with Christians vs. Atheists… so refreshing to hear a debate between two Theists, and on a topic at the core of my Christian beliefs.

The debate had two opening arguments, some cross-examination, some rebuttals and then a break, after which there was a Q&A. Sadly I had to leave at the break!

There was a good turn out and good debate, with both sides putting forward fairly sensible arguments. But I left feeling short changed with the Islamic scholar for three reasons:

1. He failed to engage with the Christian understanding of the Trinity, James White noted that the Qu’ran also misunderstands the Trinity. This came about because he did not accept James White’s opening statements about the difference between the nature and personhood of God.
2. He began his opening statement with fallacious attacks on the reliability of the New Testament, not the issue at hand, thankfully James White enlightened him and gifted him with a translation of the Bible which includes the manusrcipt source of every text.
3. He didn’t give any positive reasons, based on the Qu’ran why anyone should believe in Islam…?

What do you think? You can listen to the debate audio here…

His response to the question – “Where does morality come from?” – is to say that morality is inate in all humans.

Does anyone else see the massive hole in this point of view if you also ascribe to an atheistic evolutionary worldview??

I love Hitchens rhetoric, but his arguments are full of inconsistencies.

“My secret is that I need God–that I am sick and can no longer make it alone. I need God to help me give, because I no longer seem to be capable of giving; to help me be kind, as I no longer seem capable of kindness; to help me love, as I seem beyond being able to love.”

Douglas Coupland  -  Life After God

“Simplifying to the extreme, I define postmodern as incredulity towards metanarratives.”

Lyotard  -  The Postmodern Condition

The Panopticon

A heart that’s full up like a landfill,
a job that slowly kills you,
bruises that won’t heal.
You look so tired-unhappy,
bring down the government,
they don’t, they don’t speak for us.
I’ll take a quiet life,
a handshake of carbon monoxide…

Radiohead  -  No Surprises

“Life’s greatest happiness is to be convinced we’re loved”

- Victor Hugo -

Hugo was a self confessed “Free Thinker”… he points to a deep human need, the desire, fulfillment and security that comes from being Loved.

He’s right. But there’s only one lover who loves perfectly, who doesn’t make us earn his love, doesn’t begrude or get bored of loving, who doesn’t love to be loved back.

Jesus is the lover who brings happiness, who convinces us, and secures our identity – Loved by Christ.

One of the things that came up in passing was about Final Judgement…

Isa (Jesus) according to Islam is the one who will execute final judgement. For the Muslim, as I understand (I may well be wrong), they hope (uncertain hope) that Muhammed will intercede, will give a good word to Isa.

So the question is quite simple…

Why follow the mediator (Muhammed), when you can be friends with the judge himself (Jesus)?

…it seems like a more certain way to approach final judgement?

But the question is… When was the Bible corrupted?

Was it corrupted before Muhammed?

Well this seems unlikely given what the Qu’ran says about the Bible… Sura 4:136 says that Muslims are to believe in God, in the Qu’ran and in the Bible (“the scripture He has revealed before”). Why would the Qu’ran call Muslims to believe a corrupt document?

Or, was it corrupted after Muhammed?

It seems, given the Qu’ran’s endorsement of the Bible that it must have been corrupted after Muhammed’s revelation. Muhammed died in AD 632. But we have lots of manuscripts before that date… check out the Codex Sinaiticus a complete manuscript of the Bible, dated to the fourth century.

So… if the Bible was corrupted, when was it corrupted?

The 48th name for Allah is “The Loving”

In the Qu’ran 85:14, Allah is described as being “full of love”

My understanding of Islamic thought is that Allah is eternal, and therefore his qualities of love are also eternal.

So, the question:   Whom did Allah love in eternity before the creation of the world?

Christians believe in a Triune God, 1 God, 3 Persons, in a loving relationship for all eternity. God displays his eternal quality of love to His Son and His Spirit forever and ever – God does not need to create Man to show love, but rather chooses to create Man out of an overflow of the loving relationship of the Triune God.

However, it would appear that Allah needs to create in order to love. The quality of love within Allah cannot be eternal because it can only be exhibited when Man is created. Therefore Allah becomes dependant on Man… this cannot be so! Please explain.

• Be honest (9)
• Don’t kill (6)
• Look after the vulnerable
• Respect your mother and father (5)
• Enjoy life
• Nothing in excess
• Be true to your own God
• Treat others as you would like to be treated
• Be true to yourself
• Protect your family
• Try your best at all times
• Look after your health
• Don’t commit adultery (7)
• Live within your means (10)
• Appreciate what you have (10)
• Never be violent
• Protect the environment
• Protect and nurture children
• Take responsibility for your own actions
• Don’t steal (8)

Interesting how closely they line up. I reckon at least 6 of the Commandments are found here in this list… I suspect there are lots of others that link closely to Biblical proverbs and wisdom. However, my minister helpfully pointed out the commandments that are missing… the missing 4 all relate to the worship of God… funny how as a society we quite like Godly wisdom but don’t like where and from whom it comes!